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 Rules of Engagement

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Panzersharkcat
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PostSubject: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeFri Sep 24, 2010 8:29 pm

To: President John Henry Eden, The DC Enclave; High Priest Helium, The Theocracy of Bismouth; Emperor Shein Darson, The Imperial Republic of Rutianas; ProtoConsul Thorgood and Consul Jenova Incinerator, Burnination; Chancellor Raphael Bertinelli, The Confederated Empire of Greater Switzerland; Black Marvel Amon Tomaz, The Kingdom of Kahndaq; Generalissimo Roalds, The United Municipalities of Hew; Director Andreus Aaron, The Syndicalist Republic of Selathorn; Holy Emperor P'tar J'nsen and General Ar'c, The Holy Empire of Alanda and Alexia; Queen Hippolyta, The Queendom of Themyscira; Lucas Montero, The Malkavian Lucas

From: Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III, The Third Greco-Russian Empire; President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union; President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation; Chancellor Barbara Gordon, The Commercial Republic of Panzersharkcat

Greetings, esteemed leaders. After much discussion amongst ourselves and reflection upon the behavior of troops of all sides during the Korellian Galactic War, we, the heads of states of the planet Rhea, invite you to Sharkcat City in two weeks for a convention to lay down rules of war and treatment of civilians and prisoners of war.

Sincerely,

Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III, The Third Greco-Russian Empire
President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union
President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation
Chancellor Barbara Gordon, The Commercial Republic of Panzersharkcat

(OOC: Didn't make a specific date since I don't know the relation of this to the timeline. I know the galactic war ended for me in late April, by my most recent calculations, of 529 AL, but I may be wrong since I seem to remember something about winter fighting, but I can retcon that out to make it easier. But yeah, I'm basing anything further on as from late April of 529 for me, whatever it is for Burnination and Rutianas. Also, I ignored the other PT countries because Themyscira is mixed tech and the others aren't.)


Last edited by Panzersharkcat on Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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Selathorn

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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeFri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm

(OOC: No Selathorn?)

To: Heads of States of the Planet of Rhea (???) (OOC: The questionmarks are IC)
From: Gsso. Roald Walker, United Municipalities of Hew

Exactly why do you seek to contact us, a relatively tiny state in the middle of nowhere? We have not participated in the Galactic War, which we have heard of, but we enjoy our relatively insularity from the rest of the galaxy. I am willing to come for a short amount of time and abide by an agreement, but I am extremely busy and may not be able to arrive personally.

~Gsso. Roald Walker
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Panzersharkcat
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeFri Sep 24, 2010 9:36 pm

(OOC: I forgot to mention them. Will fix.)

To: Generalissimo Roald Walker
From: Chancellor Barbara Gordon, The Commercial Republic of Panzersharkcat

We understand that you were not part of the war, proper, but since we know of you, we feel all of us ought to create a standard of behavior in wartime to any civilians and prisoners of war and wounded. We are willing to transport you, or your representative, to Rhea.

- Chancellor Barbara Gordon

(OOC: Also, Aescentia isn't mentioned, since, as far as I know, we don't know of them yet.)
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Selathorn

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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeFri Sep 24, 2010 9:46 pm

To: Chancellor Barbara Gordon, The Commercial Republic of Panzersharkcat
From: Gsso. Roald Walker, United Municipalities of Hew

Very well, I shall leave my duties to the City Council for two weeks for this convention. Transportation would be greatly appreciated.

~Gsso. Roald Walker

***

To: Heads of States of Rhea
From: Director Andreus Aaron, the Selathorni Republic

I am willing to attend such a convention, and I will most likely sign any agreement that may be created, provided that it is fair of course.

Cordially,
Rules of Engagement Daa
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Burnination
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeFri Sep 24, 2010 9:48 pm

TO: Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III, The Third Greco-Russian Empire; President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union; President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation; Chancellor Barbara Gordon, The Commercial Republic of Panzersharkcat
FROM: High Priest Helium

I shall attend myself, though it should be known that we much prefer not having a war in the first place.

Sincerely,
High Priest Helium

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

TO: Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III; President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union; President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation; Chancellor Barbara Gordon
FROM: Consul Jenova Incinerator

I thank you for your invitations to myself and Dr. Thorgood. I look forward to being at this meeting. However, I'd like to express my reservations about any international body like this trying to regulate how wars are fought.

Sincerely,
Consul Jenova Incinerator
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Panzersharkcat
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeFri Sep 24, 2010 9:58 pm

To: Consul Jenova Incinerator
From: Chancellor Barbara Gordon

We are planning to have the agreement binding only for signatories, so should you not like the agreement, you will not have to sign. Details will be hammered out later.

- Chancellor Barbara Gordon

-----------------------------------------------------

When the time comes, the Nightwing will pick up any delegates from Earth.

(OOC: This will be after the vampires one. Also, I forgot to invite them. Would they care if I simply put Heads of Clans of Esoteric for my edit or should I name them?)
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Rutianas
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 9:42 am

(OOC: Lucas is the only one that would require an invite. He might bring others though.)

To: Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III; President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union; President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation; Chancellor Barbara Gordon
From: Emperor Shein Darson

I'll be there.

-Shein Darson

*****************************

To: Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III; President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union; President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation; Chancellor Barbara Gordon
From: President John Henry Eden

Aisha and Jericho will attend.

President John Henry Eden

*******************************

To: Emperor Dmitri Medvedev III; President Giosue Carducci, The Leggaland Union; President Jia Qinglin, West Asian Confederation; Chancellor Barbara Gordon
From: J'son Alex'nder, CEO, Alanda and Alexia

Fortunately, they knew to forward this message. Considering I'm the one to go to for any kind of diplomatic meetings, I will be there provided someone can pick us up.

J'son Alex'nder
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Panzersharkcat
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 10:32 am

(OOC: Edited to include him.)

So when the time comes, the Nightwing makes a stop at P'Taria to pick up Queen Hippolyta and Princess Diana before heading to Earth, where they pick up High Priest Helium, J'son Alex'nder, Roald Walker, and Aisha and Jericho Derscon, should they so desire, and a final stop to Esoteric for Lucas and any others he chooses to bring.

When they, and everybody else, arrive in Sharkcat City, they are handed a basic outline of the rules the four main states of Rhea drafted, subject to debate and amending and fleshing out.

Quote :
1. Persons hors de combat and those who do not take a direct part in hostilities are entitled to respect for their lives and their moral and physical integrity. They shall in all circumstances be protected and treated humanely without any adverse distinction.

2. It is forbidden to kill or injure an enemy who surrenders or who is hors de combat.

3. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Protection also covers medical personnel, establishments, transports and equipment. The emblems of recognized international aid organizations are the signs of such protection and must be respected.

4. Captured combatants and civilians under the authority of an adverse party are entitled to respect for their lives, dignity, personal rights and convictions. They shall be protected against all acts of violence and reprisals. They shall have the right to correspond with their families and to receive relief.

5. Everyone shall be entitled to benefit from fundamental judicial guarantees. No one shall be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one shall be subjected to physical or mental torture, corporal punishment or cruel or degrading treatment.

6. Parties to a conflict and members of their armed forces do not have an unlimited choice of methods and means of warfare. It is prohibited to employ weapons or methods of warfare of a nature to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.

7. Parties to a conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare civilian population and property. Neither the civilian population as such nor civilian persons shall be the object of attack. Attacks shall be directed solely against military objectives.


Last edited by Panzersharkcat on Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Selathorn

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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 10:46 am

(OOC: I think you forgot High Priest Helium.)
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Panzersharkcat
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 11:05 am

(OOC: Fixed that. If I forget to pick up somebody or name them in a big message, just assume I did so.)
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Burnination
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 11:43 am

High Priest Helium frowns. "What on Earth is hors de combat? I'm not familiar with that phrase."

"Literally translated, it means 'outside the fight,'" Jenova says. She pulls out a pen and begins scratching away at the draft.

The High Priest frowns at Jenova, then continues reading the document. "The third clause should also prohibit flying the colors of an aid organization as a ruse if you plan on making it against the ROE to strike them."
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Selathorn

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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 12:03 pm

"I believe clause six should be worded better, since it could be quite easily interpreted as a ban on superweapons, since the total annihilation of a planet definitely causes more suffering then necessary, to say the least," Aaron says.

Roald then chimes in, "Also, as for clause seven, and I suppose the whole proposal, 'military' and 'civilian' should be defined better. It technically could mean that military units cannot fire on militias and similar entities, which are technically civilians."
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 1:41 pm

On the projector in the room, the changes are made and italicized.

Dmitri asks, "Any rules for treatment of prisoners in camps? I'm of the opinion that captured officers be treated with the dignity due to an officer of equivalent rank in the military holding said officer." He looks at the others for approval. Should disapproval be made, it will be scratched out.

At Andreus Aaron's suggestion, Bob Valorum, recently appointed adviser to the Emperor, speaks. "I concur. I do not deny anybody these superweapons, as the recent battles with Brainiac have proven them useful, but perhaps we ought to limit their use to only military targets such as massive warships. Using such weapons on civilians ought to be considered a war crime."

Quote :
1. Persons hors de combat and those who do not take a direct part in hostilities are entitled to respect for their lives and their moral and physical integrity. They shall in all circumstances be protected and treated humanely without any adverse distinction.

2. It is forbidden to kill or injure an enemy who surrenders or who is hors de combat.

3. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Protection also covers medical personnel, establishments, transports and equipment. The emblems of recognized international aid organizations are the signs of such protection and must be respected. It is forbidden to fly the colors or wear any emblem of an aid organization as a ruse.

4. Captured combatants and civilians under the authority of an adverse party are entitled to respect for their lives, dignity, personal rights and convictions; captured officers shall be treated with the respect due to one of corresponding rank of the adverse party. They shall be protected against all acts of violence and reprisals. They shall have the right to correspond with their families and to receive relief.

5. Everyone shall be entitled to benefit from fundamental judicial guarantees. No one shall be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one shall be subjected to physical or mental torture, corporal punishment or cruel or degrading treatment.

6. Parties to a conflict and members of their armed forces do not have an unlimited choice of methods and means of warfare. It is prohibited to employ weapons or methods of warfare of a nature to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering. Weapons of mass destruction, such as nuclear weapons, may only be utilized against legitimate military targets, such as battleships in space.

7. Parties to a conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare civilian population and property. Neither the civilian population as such nor civilian persons shall be the object of attack. Attacks shall be directed solely against military objectives. Civilians are defined as persons not a member of his or her country's military forces. Civilians directly working for his or her country's military on a military vessel or base or other such location are not under this protection. Civilians who fight outside of his or her country's military are considered unlawful combatants and may be tried under domestic law of the detaining state. Status of a detainee is considered a prisoner of war until determined otherwise by a competent tribunal. The detaining state may continue to treat the detainee as a prisoner of war, but is not required to do so.

"Perhaps we ought to define legitimate and illegitimate targets better," suggests Carducci.

"And what of war correspondents and supply contractors?" asks Gordon. "Suggestions?"

"Better wording for the amendment to clause six?" asks Valorum.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 4:16 pm

Shein reads over the draft, though he remains silent, keeping his thoughts to himself. Everyone who's dealt with the Rutians likely knows how he feels about number five.

J'son looks it over. "Should have had A'rc come with me." He frowns a little, though shrugs. "This is pretty much what we already do though. I'm not too sure about giving enemy officers that much respect though. They're still a prisoner of war. True, they have a right to food, water, and the like. They're a prisoner. They should be treated like any other prisoner."

Lucas came alone. He looks at the draft, then pulls out a sketchpad and starts drawing. No comments from him. If he's going to make one, it's not at this point.

Aisha and Jericho did show up, but they're not really paying much attention. If the Enclave is going to sign off on this, it's not looking likely right now.
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Selathorn

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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 4:46 pm

Aaron then says, "I agree with him. Officers should not get excessive special treatment, as it would be unfair to other POWs if they were treated much better simply because they were of a higher rank. As for clause seven, I believe we should add that 'Any non-combatant civilian traveling or near on a military vessel, base, or other location should expect danger. Should they be killed, their death should not be counted as a war crime unless said murder was deliberate,' or something along those lines. "
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 5:22 pm

"That shall be changed, then."

Quote :

Article 1: General Provisions and Protections

1. Persons hors de combat and those who do not take a direct part in hostilities are entitled to respect for their lives and their moral and physical integrity. They shall in all circumstances be protected and treated humanely without any adverse distinction.

2. It is forbidden to kill or injure an enemy who surrenders or who is hors de combat.

3. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Protection also covers medical personnel, establishments, transports and equipment. The emblems of recognized international aid organizations are the signs of such protection and must be respected. It is forbidden to fly the colors or wear any emblem of an aid organization as a ruse.

4. Captured combatants and civilians under the authority of an adverse party are entitled to respect for their lives, dignity, personal rights and convictions; captured officers shall be treated with the respect due to one of corresponding rank of the adverse party. They shall be protected against all acts of violence and reprisals. They shall have the right to correspond with their families and to receive relief.

5. Everyone shall be entitled to benefit from fundamental judicial guarantees. No one shall be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one shall be subjected to physical or mental torture, corporal punishment or cruel or degrading treatment.

6. Parties to a conflict and members of their armed forces do not have an unlimited choice of methods and means of warfare. It is prohibited to employ weapons or methods of warfare of a nature to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering. Weapons of mass destruction, such as nuclear weapons, may only be utilized against legitimate military targets, such as battleships in space.

7. Parties to a conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare civilian population and property. Neither the civilian population as such nor civilian persons shall be the object of attack. Attacks shall be directed solely against military objectives. Civilians are defined as persons not a member of his or her country's military forces. Civilians directly working for his or her country's military on a military vessel or base or other such location are not under this protection, nor are any non-combatant civilians traveling or near on a military vessel, base, or other location. Should they be killed, their death are not considered a war crime unless said murder was deliberate. Civilians who fight outside of his or her country's military are considered unlawful combatants and may be tried under domestic law of the detaining state. Status of a detainee is considered a prisoner of war until determined otherwise by a competent tribunal. The detaining state may continue to treat the detainee as a prisoner of war, but is not required to do so.

Dmitri asks of the others, "What of the property and personal effects of prisoners? Obviously, their weapons should be taken away, as should any relevant documents, but I think they should be allowed to keep their armor for protection."

Valorum suggests, "I propose that this be tacked on: 'Every prisoner of war, when questioned on
the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information.' Also, I think we should make more clauses instead of cramming everything into one point." He looks around to see if anybody agrees.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 5:26 pm

Aaron frowns at Dimitri's question.

"Yes, but advanced power armor can be easily designed with tiny, hidden nooks and crannies to be filled with weaponry, and can be a deadly weapon in itself."
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 5:48 pm

Shein finally speaks up. "We don't take prisoners. Any individual, civilian or otherwise, that takes action against us in times of war will be treated as though they are a military target. Those who surrender and lay down arms and leave, or make preparations to leave, will not be harmed in our territory." He shrugs. "They stay in our territory and they will likely be killed whether or not they're armed."

Lucas looks up every so often from his drawing. "Considering the clans fight among themselves a lot, there's no military anything to get." He does glance toward Shein, then nods once. "We also don't take prisoners. There's no real way to hold one of us prisoner."

J'son nods toward Valorum. "That's agreeable." He looks toward Dmitri. "And that's a good point, however, I have to agree with the Selathorn representative on this. Any prisoner should be treated as such. Stripped, searched, then allowed adequate clothing provided by the nation that has them. Otherwise, the consequences could be catastrophic."
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 6:05 pm

The High Priest Helium says; "If we sign off on these ROEs, they obviously must apply during any war between nations who signed the document. But if we are fighting a nation who has not agreed to these restrictions, must we follow them?"

Jenova tilts her hand. "I'm done," she says. "And I submit for consideration." She puts her pen down. Her draft reads:

Spoiler:
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 7:41 pm

"I assume you took out the part about civilians near or traveling on military locations, then, or did you write that after we added that part into the draft?"
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 8:44 pm

Dmitri says, "Not even canteen cups and spoons and other issued gear? I'm more than willing to compromise on the armor, but basic tools like that ought to be kept. Plus, it saves you money."

On Jenova's edit of the bill, Dmitri continues, "I disagree on you striking out the part on uses of weapons of mass destruction. There is no need to put civilians through all that for the actions of their governments, many of which are hostile to their own people."

Jia Qinglin speaks, "Look. What if fallout from nuclear weapons were allowed but only if it's from striking military targets? No direct targeting of civilian populations. Yes, I'm aware that it removes the threat of mutually assured destruction. But what if you gamble wrong? You will have destroyed your whole civilization and all you stand for. I will not deny their use for massive ships or targets like that but to kill civilians who had nothing to do with the actions of the government who preys on them."

Queen Hippolyta walks out, with her daughter in pursuit.

Dmitri glares at them and says, "Amazons. They don't take prisoners. Your people would probably like them."

Amon Tomaz says nothing, as does Raphael Bertinelli. Dmitri starts writing, and fast, and submits the following.

Spoiler:


Last edited by Panzersharkcat on Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 9:03 pm

Shein raises a brow, then motions toward where the Amazons left. "I'm with them. I'm not signing this." He stands and starts to leave, but stops only to look at what Dmitri submitted. He still shakes his head and continues out.

Lucas watches Shein head toward the exit. He looks skyward and shakes his head. "If the government is the problem, people will eventually overthrow them. However, removing mutually assured destruction will not stop wars from breaking out. In fact, it's going to escalate them." He shakes his head again. "Shut up, I'm talking." This is said to no one in particular. "No. It will make things worse." Okay, now this is said somewhere to his left. "I know what I'm talking about." There's a pause before he continues. "Look, I've seen a lot of wars. The best ones were fought with politics and words because they were too afraid to push that big red button that said in case of emergency, push me." He grumbles something, then stands up and points to his left at no one. "I told you to shut up!" Oh, he's lost it now.

Aisha and Jericho actually become interested in Lucas at this point. They're amused more than anything else.

J'son just watches the vampire for a moment with a raised brow, then turns his attention back to the proceedings. "I'm afraid I do have to agree with the nut. While I've no problem signing off on not using them except for military targets, mutually assured destruction is probably the only thing that kept the war from happening on Earth. At least until one side pushed the button." He looks pointedly at Aisha and Jericho.

Aisha stares at J'son for a moment before responding. "We may have pushed the button, but so did you. While you managed to escape the fate we didn't, you didn't get us all. You'll never get us all. We will eventually take you and your people out."

Jericho just puts his hand on Aisha's arm and leans in to whisper to her. Probably trying to tell her to shut up. Whatever the advice was, Aisha seems to listen and falls silent for now.

Oh yeah, great way for the Enclave to be represented here. Send the two with the itchiest trigger fingers and power rings. Not that they'd use the rings here, but J'son might want to watch his back for a while.
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Selathorn

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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 9:14 pm

Roald sighs, and says, "Perhaps it is best to change the wording. 'If weapons capable of mass destruction are used, civilian casualties that may be incurred should be minimized. The targeting of a strategic civilian location should not be counted as a war crime, unless it was deliberately done to kill civilians."
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 9:20 pm

Dmitri looks slightly crushed when Shein leaves. When the little argument begins between the Dersons and J'son, he wags his fingers at all three of them, the Derscons in particular. The look in his eyes says, "If you so much as use your rings to pick your nose, I will go over and rearrange your internal organs."

All of the others, including Dmitri and the Swiss delegation, decide to concede on the mutually assured destruction and edit it to Roald's version.

"6. Parties to a conflict and members of their armed forces do not have an unlimited choice of methods and means of warfare. It is prohibited to employ weapons or methods of warfare of a nature to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.
a. If weapons capable of mass destruction are used, civilian casualties that may be incurred should be minimized. The targeting of a strategic civilian location should not be counted as a war crime, unless it was deliberately done to kill civilians."

"What categories should the breaches be divided into, and what should be the punishment for each?"


Last edited by Panzersharkcat on Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rules of Engagement   Rules of Engagement Icon_minitimeSat Sep 25, 2010 9:22 pm

"That draft is entirely too strong. Period. I see you took the less changing of my suggestions. Really though, they weren't negotiable for us," Jenova says. "The largest military power in the galaxy has already said no. The second is now following suit."

Jenova is beamed out of the meeting and back onto her ship. Burnination will not consent to international legislation that is this strong.

"Well if it means anything," The High Priest Helium says, "we'll sign it."
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