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 First Attempt at FTL a failure

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Burnination
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:52 am

Thorgood holds up a finger. "Not so fast." He looks at the Hochmeister. "We do not want to grant these people technology that they are not ready to utilize. We merely would like to prevent them from harming themselves and others in their attempts to reach FTL capability.

"Realize, ambassadors and Hochmeister, that if we simply give you the technology, it will rob your scientists of their creativity and place them intellectually at the bidding of whichever nation grants you their technology, and will also rob your people the glory of your own discovery.

"My solution is this: we give them a way to contact us whereby they transmit us their plan, and we look it over, and tell them if something is going to go wrong."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:31 am

Zhang considers Thorgood's idea, and replies, "I am inclined to agree to some extent, however I feel that having some kind of practical base to work off of is extremely helpful for future development, especially principles to work off of. In addition, I feel that reading their research would be unnecessarily intrusive and not conducive to introducing them properly into galactic civilization. The Planetary Governate fully believes in welcoming newly spacefaring societies in with open arms. What I meant was that we explain to them the principles of safe FTL and what went wrong in their last experiment, and allow them to utilize these principles the way they see fit, not necessarily actually give the plans. It is mutually beneficial to all of us - we can prevent disastrous failures in technology like we so saw today, and we preserve the both the privacy and independence of these Teutonic researchers."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:12 pm

*The Hochmeister listened to all sides patiently and then began to speak*

Paul: Excuse me sirs? I think I can speak for my people best. I will be perfectly honest. The last civil war we had drained our planet of an alarming amount of natural resources. The reason we are pushing so hard for FTL space is to colonize other planets for natural resources. Sadly our failed expedition carried a quarter of all the fuel we have left that is capable for space travel. We have three chances left to colonize a new world and start drilling for new fuel sources. You probably noticed that the ships that were in orbit around Livenstein were only using boosters when they absolutely had to and all those ships were tasked to scavenge whatever fuel deposits we can find in our local cluster. Whatever aid you can offer towards the development of our own FTL drives would be welcome and we would be eternally grateful. If not then we will continue to attempt our own FTL drives. If we fail...

*The Hochmeister nervously twittled his thumbs*

Paul: ...then I fear my people's society will be in severe jeapordy
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:36 pm

"You do not need to worry about fuel. We have plenty to trade. I am certain there is something here worth trading. If nothing else, we can boost you along with our industries setting up here. I know our businesses are always looking to expand."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:26 pm

Paul: You have me at a disadvantage. I know not what resources you require. As I said the war drained many of our resources. What wasn't consumed in industry was destroyed in raids
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:10 pm

"Labor is the most important, I believe. Shipping costs are low enough to import resources here and still make a profit. We can also break ground for you in the mining of nearby planets. Think of it as a master-apprentice relationship."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:05 pm

Paul: I don't know. It seems like I am negotiating my people's colonization or vassalage to you. If anything I would rather negotiate different settlements with different peoples so no one empire as a monopoly over my peoples resources.
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:15 pm

"Under no means will I argue in favor of a Rhean monopoly here. I simply wish for open access to trade and let the businessmen do the rest."


Last edited by Panzersharkcat on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:47 pm

Paul: I see well no reason to embargo anyone who wishes to do business with us. I will see what the others have to say before I agree to anything.

*The Hochmeister gives a little smile and brings his arm across his chest and gives a little bow*
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:48 am

Thorgood has allowed most of this to pass without commenting. "Zhang, my plan would be to allow them to discover FTL for themselves. You need not cut off contact. And we will ensure their survival because if they send us a schematic for their FTL drive and it WON'T work, we'll tell them that it won't work so they won't go destroying anything.

To the Hochmeister: "We don't normally deal with any traders or civilizations that don't come directly to us, so you will likely see us only in science expeditions. However it is very likely that your planet is full of resources that you have yet to identify."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:10 am

Zhang replies to Thorgood, "Yes, but how does that help them develop anything? All they would know is that their plan is wrong, and knowing what is wrong does not necessarily help you know what is right. I feel that by artificially limiting the growth of newly spacefaring civilizations, we create a galaxy of haves and have-nots. Sure, you could still contact them, but I feel that will do nothing more than breed resentment. Give them the basic principles of safe FTL - which is well known throughout all of spacefaring civilization - and let them find their own way to use it."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:38 am

"Because it stops them from destroying anything," Thorgood responds simply. "If you do not believe that this helps them enough, fine, but it is impossible to claim that helping them minimally is equivalent to artificial limitation.

"Clearly they have already discovered the basics of FTL travel. Why not allow them to work out the details? I think you insult their dignity by assuming that they NEED our help to figure it out."

Thorgood then talks directly to the Hochmeister. "You may accept their offer to simply tell you how to create FTL drives, or you may accept ours. I would caution you against accepting their offer, as tempting as it may be for them to simply give you the technology you need, for the reasons I already stated.

"The choice, of course, is yours."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:46 am

Zhang frowns, clearly trying to hide anger, and says, "I have said this before, I will say this a thousand times, I do not intend to give them the information on how to create FTL drives. I intend to give them the principles on which safe FTL works, and allow them to apply them however they so choose. We explain to them a tool, and we let them build it in however way they so choose and in the way most applicable to their situation. It is that simple. In addition, I have never said or implied that they need assistance to figure out FTL travel in any way, shape, or form, only that it would be extremely helpful and conducive to welcoming them in as proper members of the galactic community. I am sure that they could do so by themselves, but tell me, would you want a technologically advanced overseer looking at all the work you have done with the potential to directly control your research? Or would you prefer that they give you the basics and allow you to interpret them as you so choose?"
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:32 pm

"This is why we refer to this as a master-apprentice relationship for the time being."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:39 pm

Thorgood shrugs. "If this planet would like to operate under the thumb of and by whatever technological scraps are thrown to them by your empires, then so be it. I am merely suggesting that they might be better off self-sufficient.

"Zhang, I would rather have the error-checker, which is all I am suggesting that we do, than have them give me whatever information they think I need. Of those two options. Personal preference would be to work totally alone. This is only an international issue because of the nature of the prior explosion.

"But again, Hochmeister, the decision is really yours."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:50 pm

Talent Zhang replies in a measured tone, but still obviously unhappily, "Firstly, the Planetary Governate does not in any way seek to make the Teutons dependent on foreign powers, but to grant them a base to work off of. To say that we seek to make them dependent on foreign technology is putting words in my mouth that I have never said or implied in any way. Now, the Planetary Governate does believe in self sufficiency, and independence in research, but there is nothing that says you cannot be self-sufficient if you receive information from others if you understand and apply the information for yourself, which allows you to use it on your own accord. By doing so, they can become far more independent as a spacefaring civilization than they can with no safe base to work off of and with foreign powers meddling in their research. I cannot in any way understand why you are so vehemently opposed to giving the Teutons something to work with and letting them figure the rest for themselves. The goal is not to bring them directly to the destination, but set them on the right path. If you simply error-check, all you do is tell them if at the current moment they are on the right path or not, but you would not be telling them just what the right path is. By giving to them the principles of safe FTL, we set them on the right path and let them follow it in their own way. My suggestion saves them frustration and resentment, but still allows them independence and privacy in research. You cannot say that we are making them dependent on anything if we allow them to work out the rest for themselves."

Then, she takes a deep breath, and says more calmly, "I believe that that should be a sufficient enough argument, on my part."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:33 am

(OOC: Basically Sacae, if you take Sela or Panpan's offer you'll be buddies with them. Their sphere of influence. Take mine and you'll be on your own pretty much Razz. So take whichever you'd prefer your nation to RP later.)
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:21 am

(OOC: I'm not sure if sphere of influence would be the right term for my offer. More like nation of interest. For example, the Centauri helped out Veridia Prime at first, and they are most certainly not in Alpha Centauri's sphere of influence. The offer mostly just consists of "hey, here's how X works, create your own plans for it".)
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:06 am

*the hochmeister paced for awhile contemplating all the offers that were put in front of him. After 5 minutes he spoke up*

Paul: to be honest the burninite's offer sounds the best and it would be the best one to choose in my mind

*the hochmeister paused a second to choose his next words*

Paul: however circumstances require me to accept the offer of the people known as the alpha centurans. The ordenreich cannot afford to waste what little resources we have left on experiments. Even though I accepted their offer I am still willing to enter into trade negotiations with others
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:13 am

Talent Zhang nods, and replies, "Very well. Do not make your decision lightly, however, as I feel that all offers have merit in and of themselves. Also, remember, our offer will require work on your behalf too, but it will remove a large amount of the uncertainty. I will see to transmitting the information in the coming days, but I will also have the information be shown to my fellow delegates to shoe them that I mean exactly what I say, no more, no less."
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:28 am

Thorgood nods. "I was hoping that you would be wise enough to resist the temptation to take the proffered silver platter, as it were."

He looks to Zhang. "Look up the Great Debacle in early post-Fall Burninite history, or thousands of other examples please if your empire is going to continue giving technology to other civilizations."

To the Hochmeister: "The Centauri and Rheans will provide for you all that you need to know, then, it seems. You will not need us to check for errors; you will find that they will perform that function for you, and give you enough information that you will not need us."

To Zhang again: "We will provide you transportation again should you request."

And he vanishes.
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:42 am

"I will let them know the Ordenreich is open for business. You won't regret it." He's been seated the whole time in the lotus position and if you looked close enough, you'd see he's floating an inch off the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:51 am

She instead calls a shuttle down from the corvette to pick her up. Once she gets in, she furiously writes a scathing report of Doctor Thorgood to the Planetary Governate in which she describes a) his seeming lack of interpersonal skills, b) his refusal to even attempt to understand the viewpoints of others, and c) his claiming that the Centauri and Rhean delegates said or implied things that they never did, in addition to the actual substance of the report.

(OOC: Assume the information is delivered in a few days.)
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:05 pm

*the hochmeister nodded to each one of the diplomats and smiled as he one again brought his arm across his chest and bowed. The hochmeister then brought up his head order scribe in charge of interstellar research*

Paul: scribe Matthew, we will be receiving some technical support from the people known as the centurans. Prepare what we know on FTL space and use it and our researchers to collaborate with the intel we will receive from our new associates. Please offer them the same curtsy you offer me.

Matthew: yah mien hochmeister
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PostSubject: Re: First Attempt at FTL a failure   Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:19 pm

(OOC: So should I fast forward to the Hive RP? Or should I stay out. I could enter as a species allied to the Centurans due to their help with slipspace travel)
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